tkworld Chapter 157 Debate
Chapter 157 Debate
April 10, 2020, 11 PM.
The industry roundtable live broadcast jointly hosted by Yuchen.com and 36Kr started on time.
The title of the live stream was: "The Path to Localization of MEMS Education: Opportunity or Overreaching?"
Within just ten minutes of the broadcast starting, the number of online viewers exceeded 300,000. By 2:30 PM, that number had soared to 580,000. The barrage of comments was so fast it was almost impossible to read; the dense text on the screen surged like a blizzard.
There were four people sitting in the live stream room.
The host was Zhao Mingyuan, the editor-in-chief of Yuchen.com. He was in his early forties, wore black-rimmed glasses, and spoke calmly and methodically.
The first guest on the affirmative side: Zhou Zhiyuan, a retired professor from the Institute of Microelectronics at Tsinghua University, is 67 years old. He has gray hair and is wearing an old, slightly pilling gray sweater, but his eyes are as sharp as a knife.
The first guest on the opposing side: Professor Fang Jianhua, Vice Dean of the School of Microelectronics at Beihang University, is 53 years old. He is dressed in a suit and tie, his hair is neatly combed, and he wears an exquisite Beihang University badge on his chest.
Opposing side's second guest: Akira Ishikawa, technical director of Bosch China's MEMS business unit, 51 years old, wearing a navy blue suit and a professional smile.
"Good afternoon, everyone," Zhao Mingyuan began. "Today, we'll be discussing the topic of Hongyuan Feiniao's push to introduce MEMS sensor development boards into university teaching. Is this a necessary step to promote domestic production, or a hasty and reckless move? Let's first hear Professor Fang Jianhua's opinion."
Fang Jianhua nodded slightly, cleared his throat, and then spoke at a measured pace:
"Thank you, host. Regarding this topic, I'd like to start by presenting a few facts."
He held up one finger.
"First, Bosch and STMicroelectronics' MEMS sensor chips are the de facto standard in the global MEMS industry. More than 75% of consumer electronics devices worldwide use MEMS sensors from Bosch or STMicroelectronics. China is no exception—whether it's Huawei phones or DJI drones, they all use Bosch accelerometers and gyroscopes."
He raised his second finger.
"Secondly, Bosch and ST's MEMS experimental teaching platforms have been used globally for over fifteen years. More than two hundred renowned universities worldwide, including MIT, Stanford, Tsinghua, and Beihang, use Bosch or ST's experimental boards as teaching tools. Students learn about Bosch chips in school and can seamlessly transition into industry after graduation. This is a proven and mature system."
He raised his third finger.
"Third, and most importantly, Hongyuan Feiniao's MEMS chips are not yet in mass production. Their DRIE deep silicon etching equipment is still in the prototype verification stage, and it will be at least one to two years before actual chip mass production. Under these circumstances, is it appropriate to rush to promote development boards in universities and have students learn a technology platform that does not yet have a complete industrial ecosystem?"
Fang Jianhua paused, glanced at the camera, and his tone became more serious:
"I don't deny Mr. Su Chen's technical capabilities, nor do I deny Hongyuan Feiniao's achievements in the fields of carbon fiber and drones. But education is not business—education must be responsible to its students. If we introduce Hongyuan Feiniao's development boards into the classroom today, and three years later these students graduate, only to find that Hongyuan Feiniao's MEMS chips are not yet in mass production, and what they learned in school is useless in the industry—wouldn't we be harming these students? Wouldn't we be teaching them a skill that's useless in the real world?"
The live chat exploded instantly.
"Professor Fang is right..."
"Indeed, isn't it a bit too hasty to include them in textbooks before even mass-producing the chips?"
"Wait, don't rush to take sides. Let's hear what Professor Zhou has to say."
"Bosch people are here too. Is there some kind of conflict of interest involved?"
Zhao Mingyuan looked at Zhou Zhiyuan: "Professor Zhou, what's your opinion?"
Zhou Zhiyuan did not speak immediately.
He picked something up from the table—a palm-sized green circuit board with several black chips and tiny connectors soldered on it.
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is an experimental development board for the Intel 51 series microcontroller." Zhou Zhiyuan held the circuit board up to the camera. "When I first used this board to teach students at Tsinghua University in 1988, Professor Fang, who is sitting here today, was probably still a graduate student."
Fang Jianhua's eye twitched slightly.
"Back in 1988," Zhou Zhiyuan continued, speaking slowly but clearly and forcefully, "someone said the exact same thing as today—'The 51 microcontroller has just been introduced to China and hasn't been tested by the market yet; we shouldn't rush into textbooks. We already have the Z80 and 6502, and we've been using them for several years. Changing textbooks is too hasty.'"
He put down the circuit board and looked at the camera.
"And what was the result? The 51 microcontroller made it into textbooks. Thirty years later, China has trained millions of engineers familiar with the 51 series. These engineers have supported the entire process of China's electronics industry growing from nothing to something, from weak to strong."
"但这也带来了一个问题。"周志远的语气突然变得严肃起来，"上百万工程师熟悉的51系列——用的是因特尔的X86指令集。我们能生产51单片机的晶片吗？能。我们能1:1地仿製吗？能。但我们有授权吗？"
He paused for three seconds.
"No."
The entire room fell silent for a moment.
"To this day," Zhou Zhiyuan said, emphasizing each word, "no Chinese company has ever obtained a legal license for Intel's x86 architecture. We've used textbooks for thirty years, taught millions of students, and built an entire industrial system based on the 51 series—but its intellectual property rights are in the hands of others."
The style of the comments section began to change.
"Holy crap, no authorization?!"
"Really? We've been infringing on your copyright?"
"Professor Zhou, your stab was spot on..."
Why isn't Professor Fang saying anything?
Fang Jianhua's expression changed slightly, but he quickly regained his composure. He was about to speak when Zhou Zhiyuan didn't give him the chance.
"Professor Fang just stated three facts, so I will also state three facts."
Zhou Zhiyuan held up one finger.
"First—Professor Fang said Bosch and ST are industry standards. That's true, they are indeed industry standards. But standards don't fall from the sky; they are set by people. Thirty years ago, the 51 microcontroller wasn't a standard either, but because it was the first to be included in textbooks, it educated a generation, and that generation made it the standard. What Hongyuan Feiniao is doing today is exactly the same as what the 51 microcontroller did thirty years ago—whoever dominates education first defines the future standards."
He raised his second finger.
"Secondly—Professor Fang said that Hongyuan Feiniao's MEMS chips are not yet in mass production. That's true, they are not yet in mass production. But I have a question for Professor Fang—when the 51 microcontroller entered Chinese textbooks in 1988, could China mass-produce the 51 microcontroller?"
Fang Jianhua opened his mouth, but didn't say anything.
The answer is no. In 1988, China simply did not have the capability to mass-produce the 51 microcontroller.
"No," Zhou Zhiyuan answered for him. "Back in 1988, when we used the 51 microcontroller in our teaching materials, China couldn't even manufacture a single 51 chip. But we still used it, still taught it, and still nurtured a generation. Why? Because education isn't about today, it's about the future."
He raised his third finger.
"Third—and most importantly. Professor Fang said that students who learn from Hongyuan Feiniao's development board might find it useless in industry three years from now, like learning a dragon-slaying technique. But let me ask you this in return—if we don't incorporate Hongyuan Feiniao's development board into our textbooks, what kind of world will our students face when they graduate three years from now?"
Zhou Zhiyuan's voice rose by half an octave.
"Three years from now is 2023. If Hongyuan Feiniao's DRIE technology breaks through within a year—and this is not an assumption, but based on my understanding of Su Chen's technology roadmap, it is almost certain—then by 2023, Hongyuan Feiniao will have the capability to independently produce high-performance MEMS sensors. At that time, China's MEMS industry will enter a completely new stage."
Those students who grew up using the Hongyuan Feiniao development board since 2021 have caught up with this era. They are familiar with Hongyuan Feiniao's chip architecture and development environment, and they are the most valuable talents for China's MEMS industry in the next decade.
And what about those students still using Bosch experimental boards? After graduation, they'll face a world where domestically produced MEMS chips have risen to prominence, but their muscle memory is entirely based on Bosch. They'll need to learn domestic solutions from scratch—that's the real waste of educational resources.
The live chat exploded with excitement.
"Professor Zhou is awesome!"
"Well said! Education isn't about today, it's about the future!"
"Professor Fang got his face slapped, didn't he?"
"The analogy used in the 51 microcontroller is incredibly accurate!"
"Wait a minute, Professor Fang's joint laboratory was funded by Bosch?"
This comment was quickly copied by countless people, and the screen was filled with the same text.
Fang Jianhua finally couldn't keep his composure any longer.
He took a deep breath, forcing down his anger, and said:
"Professor Zhou, what you said makes sense, but you've overlooked a crucial issue—risk. Educational decisions cannot be gambled on; we cannot risk students' futures on the success of a company's technology. Bosch and ST's platforms are mature solutions proven over fifteen years, while Hongyuan Feiniao's development board is a new solution whose core chips haven't even entered mass production yet. The difference in risk between the two is enormous."
Zhou Zhiyuan smiled slightly.
"Professor Fang mentioned risk, so let's talk about risk."
He took a folded piece of paper out of his pocket, unfolded it, and held it up to the camera.
"This is a screenshot of a news article from May 16, 2019. That day, the U.S. Department of Commerce added Huawei to its Entity List. From that day on, Huawei phones could no longer use Google services, and Huawei chips could no longer be manufactured by TSMC."
He then took out another piece of paper.
"This is a screenshot of a news report from October 31, 2020. IDSA released a report claiming that Hongyuan Feibiao's lightweight carbon fiber composite material possesses 'highly compatible characteristics with military protective materials.' Following the report's release, international clients including Boeing, Toray, and Hexcel all suspended cooperation."
Zhou Zhiyuan put down the paper and looked calmly at Fang Jianhua.
"Professor Fang, you said that using Bosch's products carries less risk. Then let me ask you—if one day Bosch is also added to some list, or if Bosch decides to stop supplying MEMS experimental boards to Chinese universities, what will happen to those universities that have been using Bosch platforms for fifteen years? What will happen to those students who only know how to use Bosch chips?"
Fang Jianhua's lips trembled slightly.
"This assumption..."
"Before Huawei was placed on the Entity List, some people said, 'This assumption is impossible.'" Zhou Zhiyuan interrupted him, his voice not loud, but every word struck like a nail. "Before Hongyuan Feiniao was targeted by the IDSA report, some people said, 'International customers won't all withdraw because of one report.' Professor Fang, in today's world, supply chain security is not an assumption, it's a reality."
The entire room fell silent once again.
At this moment, Ishikawa Akira, who had remained silent until now, finally spoke.
"Professor Zhou," he said in fluent Chinese, his tone deliberately calm, "Bosch is a global company. We have over 60,000 employees in China, and our cooperative relationship with China is long-term and stable. It's unfair to link Bosch with 'supply chain risk.'"
Zhou Zhiyuan turned to Ishikawa Akira, his gaze sharp.
"Mr. Ishikawa, Bosch is indeed a respectable company. But I'd like to ask you a question—if your Stuttgart-based board received a 'recommendation' from a government department requesting that Bosch stop supplying MEMS experimental boards to Chinese universities, could you personally prevent it from happening?"
Akira Ishikawa's smile froze.
Of course he can't.
"I'm not targeting Bosch." Zhou Zhiyuan looked away from the camera, his voice calm and firm. "I'm just stating a simple point—in key technology areas, a 'backup plan' isn't a waste, it's insurance. Hongyuan Feiniao's MEMS development board isn't meant to replace Bosch's experimental platform, but rather to give MEMS education in China more options and more pathways."
If Hongyuan Feiniao's technological approach succeeds, we will have a completely independent MEMS education system, free from any external interference. If Hongyuan Feiniao's technological approach fails—I don't think this will happen, but assuming it does—then Bosch and ST's platforms will still exist, and students will not lose anything.
Therefore, introducing the Hongyuan Feiniao development board is entirely beneficial for students. It's not a gamble; it's being prepared.
The barrage of comments flooded in like a torrent.
"Professor Zhou is absolutely right! Having a backup plan isn't a waste of money, it's insurance!"
"Huawei's example is incredibly convincing!"
"Professor Fang and Ishikawa Akira were left speechless, weren't they?"
"Who exactly provided the funding for Professor Fang's joint laboratory? Please answer directly!"
Fang Jianhua stared at the barrage of comments on the screen, his face turning pale and then red.
He opened his mouth, wanting to refute, but found that he couldn't find a single compelling argument.
Because every word Zhou Zhiyuan said hit the nail on the head—the historical analogy of the 51 microcontroller, the legal risks of X86 licensing, and the supply chain security of Huawei's entity list—every argument is an irrefutable fact.
All Fang Jianhua could offer were the empty words "risk" and "too hasty."
He suddenly regretted answering Ishikawa Akira's call.
The five million dollar joint lab funding, the MIT visiting scholar position, the IEEE papers... all these things suddenly seem ridiculous at this moment.
What he gained by giving up all that was being crushed by a 67-year-old retired professor in front of 580,000 people across the country.
"Well... let me say one last thing," Fang Jianhua's voice was a little hoarse. "I'm not against domestic production. I just think we should wait until Hongyuan Feiniao's technology is more mature before pushing forward. Two years, give Hongyuan Feiniao two years. If their MEMS chips are in mass production in two years, then I'll be the first to support introducing their development boards into Beihang University's classrooms."
Zhou Zhiyuan shook his head slightly.
"Professor Fang, you said the same thing two years ago."
Fang Jianhua was stunned.
"Two years ago? When did I...?"
"Back in 2018, when the School of Microelectronics at Beihang University was discussing whether to introduce domestically developed EDA tools for teaching support, you said the same thing—'Wait two years, until domestically developed EDA tools are more mature before introducing them.' And what happened? Two years have passed, and Beihang's EDA courses are still using Cadence and Synopsys."
Fang Jianhua's face turned completely ashen.
The barrage of comments exploded instantly.
"Professor Zhou's memory is amazing!"
"Professor Fang, two years after two years, how many more two-year periods do we have to wait?!"
"That's a slap in the face! That's a slap in the face!"
"Professor Fang is a master of procrastination; he's always 'waiting for things to mature'!"
Seeing that the atmosphere had reached a breaking point, Zhao Mingyuan quickly stepped in to smooth things over:
"Okay, thank you very much for the insightful discussion from our guests. Our live stream today has come to an end. Regarding the topic of domestic production of MEMS education, I believe everyone here, as well as the viewers watching at home, has gained a deeper understanding."
After the live stream ended, the final number of online viewers was 670,000.
This number sets a new record for the joint live stream by Yuchen.com and 36Kr.
.........
Two hours after the live stream ended.
On Weibo, the hashtag #MEMSEducationDomesticization# has garnered over 100 million views.
On Zhihu, the question "How would you evaluate Professor Zhou Zhiyuan's speech at an industry roundtable about the application of MEMS development boards in universities?" has received over two thousand answers. The most upvoted answer comes from an anonymous user who claims to be a "PhD student in MEMS at a 985 university":
"After watching the entire live stream, I only have one thing to say—Professor Fang's every argument revolved around 'wait and see,' while Professor Zhou's every argument revolved around 'do it now.' History has proven countless times that in the race to catch up in technology, 'wait and see' often equals 'never catching up.' Professor Zhou is right—whoever dominates education first will define the standards of the future."
On Bilibili, the live stream recording garnered over three million views within two hours. The most intense barrage of comments occurred when Zhou Zhiyuan stated that "no Chinese company has ever obtained a legal license for Intel's x86 architecture"—the entire screen was filled with the words "Holy crap" and "Shocking."
Meanwhile, in the DRIE laboratory in Suzhou, Su Chen was watching the long-term thermal stability test data of the 200 mm cavity.
Shen Zhiming conducted a two-hour continuous test as required, recording temperature and etching data every ten minutes. The results showed that after running continuously for more than an hour, the cavity wall temperature tended to stabilize, and the angle deviation of the guide channel converged to within 0.12 degrees.
Applying this data to a 250mm cavity means that the design angle of the flow channel needs to be pre-compensated from 12.2 degrees to 12.05 degrees—leaving a thermal expansion margin of 0.15 degrees.
Su Chen wrote the number down in his notebook, then opened his phone and saw a message from Lin Wei:
"Professor Zhou emerged victorious in the live roundtable discussion. Fang Jianhua was rendered speechless, and the entire live chat sided with Professor Zhou. A record-breaking 67 people watched online."
After reading it, Su Chen's lips curled up slightly.
Then he replied with two words:
"very good."
Then another point was added:
"I've completed the design of the flow channel for the 250mm cavity. The pre-compensation angle is 12.05 degrees. Have Chen Guodong arrange for processing; I need to receive the new cavity within ten days."
Lin Wei replied with a wry smile emoji, followed by a sentence:
"Can't you be happy for a while before talking about work?"
Su Chen did not reply.
He put down his phone, lowered his head again, and continued to mark the location of the air passage interface of the 250 mm cavity on the drawing.
Outside the window, the streetlights in Suzhou Industrial Park are already on.
The warm orange light shone through the window onto his drawings, casting a warm hue over the dense numbers and lines.
But Su Chen didn't notice any of this.
At this moment, his world consists of only three numbers—12.05 degrees, 250 millimeters, and ten days.
This is his race against time.
He doesn't intend to lose this race.